[FYI] Germanofon label

According to Thomas Werner who runs Kalemegdan Disk we have an answer about where Germanofon actually came from...

"HF for instance is the shortage for Henry Fa, a guy from the Stuttgart region who founded a company in Luxemburg called Germanofon about 25 years ago because of the copyright regulations in Luxemburg which allowed - or have allowed - everybody to repress any records or CDs without an agreement with musicians and original record companies I think after 10 years. He did his work in , but had an office and/or a warehouse in Luxemburg. I don’t where he manufactured the CDs. It was neither nor Luxemburg, but a county well known for illegal CD releases at that time."

I assume Thomas is referring to Italy, although I suspected the Czech Republic as the manufacturing source.

Anyway, it wasn't hard to find out that Henry Fa is still in business, as documented here: http://www.krautedmind.com/shop_content.php?coID=4 but no longer openly selling such stuff. There was a Krauted Mind blog site several years back which had all the Kraut! Demons! Kraut! etc. Blumenkraft label releases as able, which probably means all those were the same source?

So, if Thomas Werner is correct, it means that Germanofon was indeed a German label.

If anyone has any more info on this matter I'd welcome it.

ultimathulerecords
I assume Thomas is referring to Italy, although I suspected the Czech Republic as the manufacturing source.

FWIW, the SID codes on my copy of the Organisation album point to a Taiwanese plant.

ultimathulerecords
So, if Thomas Werner is correct, it means that Germanofon was indeed a German label.

Sounds about as legit as anything else to come out of that label. I'm a bit surprised by the claim that Luxembourg allows anyone to repress OOP material without agreements though. As an EU member, isn't Luxembourg bound to the usual copyright treaties?

brunorepublic
I'm a bit surprised by the claim that Luxembourg allows anyone to repress OOP material without agreements though.

I believe Luxembourg was used on such releases because there was no copyright control system as such in Luxembourg (all releases I've encountered that were genuinely Luxembourg tended to be made in Belgium or Holand with BIEM or STEMRA rights) and not because it was allowed at all there. All just a blind / a ploy - as there was no way for anyone to check on the legitimacy of such releases. Just the same as Progressive Line using a bogus address in Australia (address is a market place), or Won Sin claiming to come from South Korea (I had Korean customers who knew nothing of that label, address there was wasteland now built on). These days it is easy to check with Google maps when an address is given, like the Flawed Gems address actually being the off-ramp of a motorway. Germanofon though were even more cagey and never gave any address or clues at all.

brunorepublic
FWIW, the SID codes on my copy of the Organisation album point to a Taiwanese plant.

"Genuine" Germanofon releases do not have SID codes. That Organisation will be a release by someone else masquerading as a Gemnanofon issue, like the Neu! 2 copy I have here being made by Disctronics USA based on the IFPI L793 code.

ultimathulerecords
That Organisation will be a release by someone else masquerading as a Gemnanofon issue, like the Neu! 2 copy I have here being made by Disctronics USA based on the IFPI L793 code.

I guess that explains why the Kraftwerk/Organisation ones seem to still be available, whereas I haven't seen any others in years. Fakes of fakes. :)

Which brings me to a point: I guess I should sub my copy. But do I create Germanofon (2)? This is all so meta.

Considering they had an office and/or warehouse in Luxembourg as well as in why is this a German label and not one in two countries?

But what was the real market of release? Certainly not Luxembourg. I recall them suddenly turning up everywhere, so I figure they are worldwide releases.

Fauni-Gena
Considering they had an office and/or warehouse in Luxembourg as well as in why is this a German label and not one in two countries?

I doubt they ever set foot in Luxembourg. Such things on unofficial releases are usually fakery or lies. I suggested in the past that they should all have the country blanked, but some one else said they should be as on release, even if it is fake.

brunorepublic
I guess that explains why the Kraftwerk/Organisation ones seem to still be available, whereas I haven't seen any others in years. Fakes of fakes. :)

Which brings me to a point: I guess I should sub my copy. But do I create Germanofon (2)? This is all so meta.

I think there are quite a few already on Discogs that are "Fakes of fakes" and could be considered Germanofon (2)

ultimathulerecords
...but some one else said they should be as on release, even if it is fake.

I disagree with that reasoning. I see no sense in adding information which we know is incorrect.

ultimathulerecords
I suggested in the past that they should all have the country blanked, but some one else said they should be as on release, even if it is fake.

We don't know if it's fake or not and it was you who presented evidence that it might actually be correct. I agree with as on release in this case.

brunorepublic
I disagree with that reasoning. I see no sense in adding information which we know is incorrect.

Do we know it to be incorrect? I don't think so. We don't know one way or another so as on release documents the one thing we are sure of.

Interesting information here which explains why Germanofon as a going concern ceased in 1997 https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ny0vvUpBzCYC&pg=PA171&lpg=PA171&dq=cd+manufacturing+luxembourg&source=bl&ots=N5oBe5FHv7&sig=XsjWmv04pEBN7q2DqeVhxocKx6E&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjNpeie1tLMAhXBOyYKHdDcCu4Q6AEIXDAH#v=onepage&q=cd%20manufacturing%20luxembourg&f=false

Another interesting point is that Luxembourg had no CD manufacturing facilities until http://www.cdpress.lu/ established as the first Luxembourg pressing plant in 2001 (although the current site doesn't state that boast as they went into istration in 2005 and were bought over by new management in 2006, the date you'll see on some company registry sites).

Fauni-Gena
Do we know it to be incorrect? I don't think so. We don't know one way or another so as on release documents the one thing we are sure of.

As in a certified, factual document? Of course not; these are unofficial releases we are talking about which, as they are illegal, deliberately obfuscate their origins. The argument I hear so often here that we can't discount anything about an unofficial release (or even the unofficial status of it) due to lack of tangible facts is absurd, especially in the face of all the available evidence.

We might not have a notarized document from the International Office of Official Facts, but we can be reasonably certain about one thing: The notion that these bootlegs, which suddenly showed up in several countries, and are all catered to serving a very niche audience, were intended only for a small European country with a population of only half a million people and no demand for obscure Krautrock albums, is really, really, far-fetched. If you really think these were meant for Luxembourg, I've got an original mint Vee Jay copy of "Introducing... The Beatles" to sell you.

If the justification for using Luxembourg as country of release "because it says so", then let's get remove "Unofficial Release" from what are listed as counterfeit pressings, as well as bootleg labels from the db. After all, they say they're legit right on them, so we'd have to go with what's on release, right?

Also, all those European CBS pressings need to be changed to Netherlands, and just about every Sony CD made for the European market should be changed to Austria, and all those Middle Eastern releases should be changed to Greece. Shows the country right on the release.

As for we "don't know one way or the other", well, which is likely to be closer to the truth? The huge amount of evidence that these are not from or intended for Luxembourg, or a few words of text on a release which has been established to be completely illegitimate?

This was supposed to be a piece of interesting / useful information about Germanofon, shared with the Discogs community which reveals knowledge about the origins of the label that was unknown before. It was not intended to be the cause for an argument. But, well-said brunorepublic I wholeheartedly agree with you. If known / shared knowledge by long established collectors / dealers / experts isn't worth a fig on Discogs we may as well all give up trying correct anything, as 90% of the history and known things about records and CDs comes from accumulated knowledge for which there is rarely any hard evidence.