stickered release - valid entry?

Underworld - Second Toughest In The Infants on 2xLP was available for the north american market from TVT/Wax Trax but it was nothing more than the UK 2xLP with a sticker on the back cover showing the Wax Trax logo, barcode and cat#s. while the CD and cassette versions were manufactured by TVT/Wax Trax and are valid entries to the database, would this 2xLP version be eligible? it's just the UK release edition with a sticker, but it was cataloged by TVT/Wax Trax.

I would say yes, even though it seems kind of odd. But since it got its own unique cat-no. I guess it qualifies as a unique release.

but if the sticker falls off, it's the UK release again, or ?

Wax Trax on this seem to be the distributor with a unique distribution/cat number similar to the EFA issue also being discussed today. Only with this the cat is on the sticker only it seems. I'm undecided as I see merits of its inclusion only because of its unique code yet as Ahlbomper says the sticker goes and it's not unique anymore and maybe subject to the same logic application which prevents stickered promos from being submitted.

Record Co / Distributor initiated stickers count IMHO.
The sub MUST show a suitably stickered pic for the country version to count as unique though.
("This did have a sticker, but it fell off" or, "I don't have a scanner" doesn't count)

LOL. That would lead to a lot of "fun" :( if it did count.

I did such a submission here: Pet Shop Boys - So Hard

I still need to do another one for a similarly-stickered Cabaret Voltaire 12".

swagski
Record Co / Distributor initiated stickers count IMHO.
The sub MUST show a suitably stickered pic for the country version to count as unique though.
("This did have a sticker, but it fell off" or, "I don't have a scanner" doesn't count)

i have the uk version with the tvt/wax trax sticker, but never had submitted it as i felt it was not necessary as its still the same item as the uk but with a sticker.

we canadians dont submit items with Distribution Fusion stickers on them as separate unique items to the database, but those dont carry unique cat #s.

but the sticker is on it, it's not made up, but it can easily be removed (though not without marring the sleeve - it's the kind of sleeve that would soak up the acids in the glue of the sticker, turning the paper underneath a darker, cloudier shade.)

I still feel they don't belong. You put those in and where do you draw the line with regards to stickers?

I'd say a stickered import is just that, an import.

..with a sticker. I feel that the original submission should simply have the foloowing in the notes "This was imported and distributed by..." including the superficial dist code as if it's just on a sticker it should be treated as such. Superficial.

Yeah i have a couple of records that are the US version sold in the UK, only with an import sticker: http://discogs.versitio.com/sell/list?seller=nerdfly&st=&q=import (***No Spam Honest***)

They are exactly the US copy apart from the sticker. It's the same as having a retail release with gold stamped promo sleeve IMO.

i have added images for Underworld's 2nd toughest for you all to look at
link's at the top of the thread.

Here http://discogs.versitio.com/viewimages?release=1005991
I included the UK 1978 import in images, along with the USA.
I purchased in UK in '78
I then purchased the UK proper in '80
It didn't get pressed in UK by Virgin 'till 1980, for various reasons.
(Like Virgin still setting up ops in US in '78 & hooked to Columbia - who did that Warner pressing at Winchester plant, etc)
That shrinked stickered places that issue as pre '80 UK 'Virgin' & thus collectible (IMHO).

My version of http://discogs.versitio.com/Various-Warp-103-Remixes/release/30834 had some kind of Matador sticker and barcode (that I removed) over the original barcode as Matador was responsible distribution in the states. Should there be a separate entry for that now, too?
edit: Matador was actually the responsible label for the CD pressing in the U.S. (as opposed to just putting another sticker over the barcode) as shown in the master release http://discogs.versitio.com/Various-Warp-103-Remixes/master/2775

Caroline stickered more than one UK Virgin CD for 'release' in the US, such as this entry: http://discogs.versitio.com/Edgar-Froese-Aqua/release/585866

Since I removed the sticker on mine, I consider my collection to contain the UK version, which is otherwise identical so far as I can tell.

My feeling is that with only a barcode sticker, it should be one multi-region release, with barcode variants and an explanatory note added.

0bleak
My version of http://discogs.versitio.com/Various-Warp-103-Remixes/release/30834 had some kind of Matador sticker and barcode (that I removed) over the original barcode as Matador was responsible distribution in the states. Should there be a separate entry for that now, too?
edit: Matador was actually the responsible label for the CD pressing in the U.S. (as opposed to just putting another sticker over the barcode) as shown in the master release http://discogs.versitio.com/Various-Warp-103-Remixes/master/2775

this is a simmilar situation to the 2nd Toughest issue - CD and Cassette manufactured in the US with a stickered UK vinyl.

so if the underworld is a valid addition, then the matador stickered Warp 10+3 would be valid too.

nerdfly
I'd say a stickered import is just that, an import.

Eviltoastman
..with a sticker. I feel that the original submission should simply have the foloowing in the notes "This was imported and distributed by..." including the superficial dist code as if it's just on a sticker it should be treated as such. Superficial.

+1

These are not unique releases. Compare Peter Gabriel - Birdy (Music From The Film By). However if there is an additional cat# (like in my example) it could be discussed to be added to the cat# as it is not BaoI but a cat#, which belongs rather in the cat field. But I strongly feel they should not be separate releases.

Mop66
However if there is an additional cat# (like in my example) it could be discussed to be added to the cat# as it is not BaoI but a cat#, which belongs rather in the cat field.

No. If the sticker-cat# would go into a cat# field, it would give the impression of a separate release: All info in the cat# fields has to apply to each and every copy covered by the release; whether it's one that got the sticker, or one that doesn't!

The sticker-cat# can (and IMO should) certainly go into a BaOI field (like individual disc cat#s of sets, which go there too).

Mop66
But I strongly feel they should not be separate releases.

I agree.

fisonic
The sticker-cat# can (and IMO should) certainly go into a BaOI field (like individual disc cat#s of sets, which go there too).

+1

should we remove the TVT version of 2nd toughest then?
images of the sticker should probably be ported over to the existing UK JBO release page too.

Mop66
it could be discussed to be added to the cat# as it is not BaoI but a cat#, which belongs rather in the cat field.

fisonic
The sticker-cat# can (and IMO should) certainly go into a BaOI field (like individual disc cat#s of sets, which go there too).

but only the US imports will have (or have had) that cat# from the sticker.
if it's to be noted in the release data (baoi or format/cat#) i think it should be made clear in the notes that most don't have that cat# as it's only on the sticker of US imports.

i think it might in many cases be better to only mention such a sticker on imports in release notes.

but this is a somewhat tricky area.

i think it would be fine to add any info on the sticker to the BAOI fields
seems to be allowed by the guidelines

5.7. If information is taken from stickers that have been applied after manufacture (for example by the distributor), please declare it is a sticker in the description, and add any further information available (for example, the company name).

http://discogs.versitio.com/help/submission-guidelines-release-barcode.html

ahlbomper
but this is a somewhat tricky area.

Sticker, Sticky, Tricky = a Stricky™ situation
(A new Discogs' expression is born)

Awesome resolution.

ahlbomper
but only the US imports will have (or have had) that cat# from the sticker.
if it's to be noted in the release data (baoi or format/cat#) i think it should be made clear in the notes that most don't have that cat# as it's only on the sticker of US imports.

Yeah, but I think it's not necessarily an either-or decision. I'd describe the facts in the release notes and put the sticker-cat# into an "Other" BaOI field, with brief qualification - just like Peter Gabriel - Birdy (Music From The Film By).

darkwaves
My feeling is that with only a barcode sticker, it should be one multi-region release, with barcode variants and an explanatory note added.

ahlbomper
if it's to be noted in the release data (baoi or format/cat#) i think it should be made clear in the notes that most don't have that cat# as it's only on the sticker of US imports.

I agree, sounds good!

nik

I agree, sounds good!

Does it mean, like this is ok:
Billy Squier - Happy Blue
The country might need change, if considered just an import. But the cat# can stay in the cat# field (where I believe it belongs). It is clarified in the notes that the cat# is on a sticker.

Personally, I feel that country should stay with the country it was initially marketed in with a note stating it was subject to import by "blah" on dist cat "blah" to whatever country in order to explain the note for the cat which will go in the baoi. Changing a UK or European release to UK and US is artificial.

nik
...

Could you please clarify, whether you want sticker-only cat#s in a general catalog# field or in a BaOI field? Thanks.

fisonic
Could you please clarify, whether you want sticker-only cat#s in a general catalog# field or in a BaOI field? Thanks.

Bump.

fisonic
Could you please clarify, whether you want sticker-only cat#s in a general catalog# field or in a BaOI field? Thanks.

Sorry, missed this question. BAOI is fine for this.

Mop66
Does it mean, like this is ok:
Billy Squier - Happy Blue
The country might need change, if considered just an import. But the cat# can stay in the cat# field (where I believe it belongs). It is clarified in the notes that the cat# is on a sticker.

Eviltoastman
I feel that country should stay with the country it was initially marketed in with a note stating it was subject to import by "blah" on dist cat "blah" to whatever country in order to explain the note for the cat which will go in the baoi.

I think this is a good solution for now.

On a similar note, what about these two?

http://discogs.versitio.com/Various-A-Rekords-Rekords-Record/release/2831237
and
http://discogs.versitio.com/Various-A-Rekords-Rekords-Record/release/2829806

The only differences are the stickers on the sleeve. By the above rational, these should be merged with a note explaining about the two different stickers.

Also further information I have on these two releases is that on both records it states "made in EU" and the stickers then differ offering distribution information pertaining to their given territory.

ahlbomper
but if the sticker falls off, it's the UK release again, or ?

Never saw a sticker falling off all of a sudden...
You'd rather lose an insert imo.
Or maybe the printed "Made In ..." suddenly fades away...

Eviltoastman
where do you draw the line with regards to stickers?

There are roughly taken 2 kind of stickers: those with a glue made to easily remove them, and those with a glue that makes it difficult to remove (mostly impossible without damage or the use of some solvent.

If a sticker contains cat#, distribution code, barcode or whatever that is not present on the regular non-stickered version, there is no choice but go for a unique release.
Sometimes we have unique version, but only the sticker is the identifier between two pressings for instance.

Saying a sticker is removable is no argument for anything, a CD booklet is far more easy to remove, an insert too, not speaking about the actual disc or the whole cover.... If someone lost a part of a release that is needed to idetify it as a unique version, bad luck... Except of course for those stickers that are actually designed to be peeled of.

nik
Could you please clarify, whether you want sticker-only cat#s in a general catalog# field or in a BaOI field? Thanks.
Sorry, missed this question. BAOI is fine for this.

I have put all cat#'s until now in the cat# field... I really mean ALL cat#'s (except those that are for only part of a release rather than whole the release)
Not planning to change that... stickered or not. Rather stay consistent with the past, present & future...

It would even be unworkable. I have releases where an old-format cat# was over-stickered by a new one. -> unique release ofcourse. (These were non-removable stickers also), using the cat# on the stickers, mentioning the hidden cat# in the notes if it shines through the sticker.
Deutsche Grammophon in the beginning used stickers to note a stereo release, changed later to a red 'stereo' on the record, the a yellow one. All unique versions. Those were the quite impossible to remove tinfoil stickers.
Sticker on shrink wrap containing info about the manufacturer -> unique release (if compared with other versions in shrink wrap without the info, always compare a Complete Version with another Complete Version before splitting anything)

Non-removable stickers should be treated the same as printed text, no matter what strange opinions there are.
Removable stickers are not worth more than a mentioning in the notes. Or even not that (for instance price reduction stickers)

But releases with cat#'s in baoi field, and notes that there are variations containing this or that, should imo be avoided as much as possible. Reminds me of the days before v4... which was no good compared to now..., if you have the stickered version, you don't have the unstickered version and vice versa. The actual appreciation or vision on stickers shouldn't make any difference.
If stickers contain 'Unique Identifiers' -> unique entry. (Speaks for itself, imo)

A bit of common sense is needed of course. Lot's of stickers are not genuine or no more than trivia. Sometimes shrink wrap gets stickered to introduce an artist on more early prints of the same, etc... such don't need to create unique versions. But it speaks for itself that when a release contains extra or different cat#s or other identifiers, that we put those in the correct field following RSG (so a stickered cat# goes to cat# field) and that we don't mix them up with versions not containing these cat#s & other identifiers.

Peoples removing stickers shouldn't be an argument to do things different for stickers than for printed information, or added inserts, booklets & discs... I you remove parts of your release, that's none of discogs business and it's Your problem to identify your version correct for yourself.
-

I agree that a import should have the country it's imported from as release country. The country it is imported in, could have an own field, but shouldn't replace the release country.

Any attempt to "test" the sticker could easily result in permanent damage to the item concerned, your suggestion seems to be genuinely unworkable and unreasonable on the owner or indeed seller of the item concerned. I feel Nik's temporary solution is reasonable and fits most situations.

Dr.SultanAszazin
Peoples removing stickers shouldn't be an argument to do things different for stickers than for printed information, or added inserts, booklets & discs... I you remove parts of your release, that's none of discogs business and it's Your problem to identify your version correct for yourself.

What's been intimated is that a different sticker in the majority of cases does not equate to a different version. The media and sleeve would otherwise be identical much the same as when a retail release has a promo sticker (easy to remove or nailed on with ship rivets) it's the same item and a note explaining the variation on these items should be sufficient in my opinion.

Dr.SultanAszazin
Never saw a sticker falling off all of a sudden...

the sticker on my copy of wing's red rose speedway fell off a while back - the glue finally gave out :(
have it stashed inside the sleeve for now, til i find the right adhesive for that particular cover's paper stock and sticker.

Eviltoastman
t's the same item and a note explaining the variation on these items should be sufficient in my opinion.

I agree this is in many cases true, but I don't think there is a general line. Especially when catalog#s are altered by stickers. For some cases this may as well indicate another pressing.

If a catalog# was over-sticker, the stickered cat# is the cat# of the release (in some cases the original isn't identifiable so there really isn't a lot of choice)
But the same release without stickers has a different cat#, not containing the original cat#. This can't impossibly be done in one entry.
No general rule can be applied here. In some cases the stickers simply need to be taken into . Although the most common stickers are trivial additions.

No release entry can bear the cat# of another release, even if that difference is made by stickers. Just too inpractical for a database.

PabloPlato
the sticker on my copy of wing's red rose speedway fell off a while back - the glue finally gave out :(

hehe, actually I've had that too, but these were age old sticker with shop address on it...
But in such case, mostly there is a clear dried glue mark on the record too.

Dr.SultanAszazin
But in such case, mostly there is a clear dried glue mark on the record too.

strangely enough, no mark was left on the sleeve - all glue residue stayed on the sticker.

PabloPlato
all glue residue stayed on the sticker

and even if it didn't some lighter fluid would take care of the residue...

This new rule of allowing importing stickers was brought to my attention here: http://discogs.versitio.com/history?release=324825#latest

At the beginning of this thread, people were talking about ones put on by the ACTUAL record company; those are different and in my opinion are valid as those are from the manufacturer or distributor. The thing with Wax Trax throwing stickers on the release and calling it US, that just means it was distributed by them...same with Metropolis selling import releases in their online store, however they don't re-sticker anything.
Also, same with this as mentioned above: http://discogs.versitio.com/Pet-Shop-Boys-So-Hard/release/2725730 --- that sticker on the release is fine, because it was put there by the ACTUAL record company.

However, that link at the top of this post (the Marilyn Manson one), if voted correct basically means that someone who has a random sticker on an import with a barcode from Mom n Pops record store, can submit that sticker/barcode/identifier when otherwise, no one would care.
What next, a field for the store you bought it at, in relation to that identifier?

If the above link/submittal is not correct, feel free to comment on said release, but I won't be voting on it with it on there; I don't think the identifier for that sticker belongs here at all. I can promise you that no one in Europe has that identifier on their release, UNLESS they bought it from someone in another country.
It most certainly did not come on mine, and I'm in the US.

Sorry, but I gotta say this here: some of the rules as of late are really becoming obnoxious and pointless. I understand identifiers, but allowing domestic identifiers by stock suppliers and importers in said country on an import release...bad idea. I won't be participating in this aspect of identifiers because they don't apply to a real release in said country it was released in. In other words, why would you make notation or record of a sticker for a UK release, that was placed on it in the US?
They do that so the release has a barcode for the store you are in, since the real one may not work in their system, as well as for stock reasons, nothing more. It's NOT THE REAL barcode.

This ranks up there with REQUIRING bonus discs for releases to be listed as a separate entry, when they were BONUS items and not even packaged in with the release, like this one: http://discogs.versitio.com/Washed-Out-Within-And-Without/release/2990821
That 2nd disc is a throw in disc from Rough Trade on that release. The album that it comes with is the SAME exact album as the normal version. If it was in it, I can understand yeah it belongs, but when I go to sell my extra bonus disc I have, is the person getting my copy of the album as well? NO, NO they are not. Why? Because the 2nd bonus disc I have, came with my vinyl of the album...and the buyer is sure NOT getting my vinyl copy either. I also should not be forced to keep both my bonus disc and album together as one thing on my collection.

As for removing said stickers, I find that here in the states, using a combination of Goo Gone does wonders as a solvent, and then using alcohol or rubbing alcohol to remove the Goo Gone and other left overs does the job.

just
However, that link at the top of this post (the Marilyn Manson one), if voted correct basically means that someone who has a random sticker on an import with a barcode from Mom n Pops record store, can submit that sticker/barcode/identifier when otherwise, no one would care.
What next, a field for the store you bought it at, in relation to that identifier?

where in the history is it stated that the stickered barcode was placed by a store rather than by the importing/distributing label?

perhaps we should ask the who edited the release page with that barcode to add images of it so we can decide.

Both of things you mentioned/asked for are in the history.

It was already added and then removed...
submitted image by urallclownshoes:
http://discogs.versitio.com/image/R-324825-1298002972.jpeg

Also, 9228289 posted about it and removed the image.

That image is still in the deleted images, however that barcode and other info on the sticker as shown has now been put in the identifiers for that release, as per the line: Barcode (on import sticker Bin# R24400 125): 7 66485 03902 6

They don't belong on the release. No one in the domestic/origin country would have it on theirs. No one buying it from a store in the domestic/origin country directly, would have it on theirs. The sticker is placed on the outside of the case and only by importers, not record companies or related.

the question is who was the importer? are they acting like a record label, or is it as you claim, an individual store sticker.
can anyone decipher the "Bin# R24400 125" portion?

also

just
9228289 posted about it and removed the image.

he has a tendancy to much things up, like removing invalid images but not the invalid information, so come voting time i had nothing to go on but people claiming a different local distributor. this is how things get dragged out.

Eviltoastman
On a similar note, what about these two?

http://discogs.versitio.com/Various-A-Rekords-Rekords-Record/release/2831237
and
http://discogs.versitio.com/Various-A-Rekords-Rekords-Record/release/2829806

these should be merged btw

PabloPlato
the question is who was the importer? are they acting like a record label, or is it as you claim, an individual store sticker.
can anyone decipher the "Bin# R24400 125" portion?

It's from a distributor that imports releases...like I have already mentioned. Seen it hundreds of times over the years and even asked several store employees why they are there; same answer when I got a straight one.
Sorry, but going to wait for someone else to chime in about this, you and me are going in circles as you are asking questions that you already have answers to, not to mention you are one of the people that voted it in as correct, which is the whole issue here.

PabloPlato
these should be merged btw

I agree, but I don't own either release. I've just seen them. Any advice?

Eviltoastman
Any advice?

ask for high quality scans to be added, especially of the stickers.
as the subs are at the moment, its hard to know which one needs to have its info ported to the other release page.

Asked. :)

PabloPlato
he has a tendancy

keep your comments for yourself. all this startet much earlier

9228289 I do not find "Pt. 1" on your item, please add a note where this is written on this release.
also this cat# is not on CD please update! 6 months ago

PabloPlato
ask for high quality scans to be added, especially of the stickers.as the subs are at the moment, its hard to know which one needs to have its info ported to the other release page.

It's been over a week and I've had no reply. Any advice?

I did find this:

http://jhodiscography.xtreemhost.com/release.php?id=6&band=q&format=v&type=other

You can see the barcodes are different with different branches of the label/distributer Domino listed on the barcode stickers (dominorecordco.com and dominorecordco.us) but both discs states Made in EU and both have identical runout etchings.

Any advice?

same record. i guess if both are made in the EU then merge the us to the EU page, and make a release note explaining that those intended for the north american market have a different sticker applied to the pvc sleeve.